When did this trafficking of North Korean women into China begin in significant numbers?

The movement of large numbers of people from North Korea into China began during the serious famine that occurred in the North in the mid to late 1990s. Living conditions in North Korea became very difficult, and a lot of people were forced to leave North Korea to go to China in order to earn money in order to buy rice and basic commodities that they had difficulty getting in North Korea.

Is there a rough estimate of the number of women who have been trafficked in this way?

This is difficult to pin down as the Chinese are very sensitive about the problem of illegal border crossing, trafficking and about their border security. They don’t want to admit that there is a problem and they are not providing information, so it’s very hard for South Koreans, Americans or others to get a good picture of what's going on.

How has Chinese policy contributed to this trafficking and victimization?

The basic problem is that leaving North Korea illegally is treated as a very serious offense by the North Korean government. If North Korean citizens are captured sneaking back into the country or if they are forcibly returned by the Chinese, they will, in most cases, be sent to re-education camps for a significant period of time. In some cases, if their activities are seen as contrary to North Korea's interests, there will be even more difficult prison terms. The Chinese treat these North Korean citizens as “economic migrants,” as illegal border crossers, and the migrants are returned to North Korea, whether the individuals want to go back to North Korea or go elsewhere. It is very difficult for anyone to cross the border between North Korea and South Korea. Thus, the only option for North Koreans who want to leave is to cross the border into China, which puts these migrants in a very difficult and risky situation.

Has there been any international pressure on China to change this policy?

The Chinese have been heavily criticized for what they've done in terms of how they have treated the North Koreans who have been captured in China and returned to North Korea. This is an issue that has been raised annually by a series of Special Rapporteurs on the human rights situation in the DPRK who have been appointed by the UN Human Rights Council since 2004. The most detailed discussion and criticism of it was in the 2014 report of the Commission of Inquiry that was established by the UN Human Rights Council, which is still “the Bible” or the standard work that people look to for information on issues related to North Korean human rights. A good portion of that report goes into the details of what happens to North Korean refugees in China. Thus, it has been discussed and it is public information. But the Chinese are quite impervious to efforts to try to deal with the issue and they are generally unwilling to discuss it.

Do you see China budging on this in the future?

No. The Chinese have occasionally allowed some North Korean refugees to leave China and go to South Korea, but there have been very few cases of this. When the Chinese have done this, it has been in part because they were unhappy with what the North Koreans were doing.  This was one way of showing their displeasure. It is difficult to get the Chinese to change what has been a very strict policy and China is a place where the government is very controlling. It has been difficult for Americans and also for South Koreans to get permission to travel to some of the more remote areas of China near the borders with North Korea.

 

Do we know how these North Korean women are being exploited?

There are a number of things that women do when they go into China in order to earn money for their family or to try preserve themselves till they can get to South Korea. The difficulty is that in China, there are a number of options, but only some of them are legal. For example, a number of North Korean women and men go from North Korea to China to find work. A lot of these women work in restaurants and clothing factories. Their employment situation is generally done legally with the approval of the North Korean government. In these situations, they are very carefully guarded and there are people there who keep an eye on them. They are live together and have limited opportunities to mix with others. The ones who are the most problematic and the ones who have the greatest difficulty are those who cross illegally from North Korea into China. In some cases, they go to earn money in China and in other cases, they try to get to South Korea. Those women are particularly vulnerable because if they are captured, they will be returned to North Korea and will be imprisoned and punished. Thus, there is a real incentive to avoid being captured. There are both Korean and Chinese people who will help women escape from North Korea under the guise of helping them get out of China into South Korea or someplace else. These villains pick them up at the border and then force them into cybersex or into prostitution because there is a market which exploits them.  It is a very painful process and a horrible situation.

Is there any protection that South Korea is giving these women?

The South Koreans are very careful and attentive to the issue of the North Korean defectors, but they are limited in what they can do. As a state, South Korea has economic and other considerations so they have to be careful. Additionally, this is happening in China, and the Chinese do not like South Koreans running around and doing things along their borders without Chinese knowledge and permission. The South Koreans have diplomats who maintain good relations with the Chinese. South Korea has its embassy in Pyongyang but also a consulate in Shenyang, which is in the area where these problems take place in the Northeast part of China. The South Koreans have very good diplomats and are very sensitive in trying to deal with this problem. The Chinese are concerned about their sovereignty and South Koreans operating inside their country is something that the Chinese do not want. In addition to official South Korean representatives, who do a very good job considering the limitations under which they have to function, there are also a lot of private groups in China who try to help North Koreans who are trying to get away from North Korea. There is a significant ethnic Korean population in China and some of these people tend to be helpful to North Koreans trying to escape. There are also South Koreans who work in Northeast China who try to help. A lot of these groups that work with trafficked women in particular are Christian groups. The Christian population in South Korea is about 30%. South Korean Christians tend to be very active and helpful in raising money and conducting rescue efforts for North Koreas and particularly North Korean women who have been trafficked.

Would you say private groups have been more successful than the governments of other countries in addressing this issue?

They both have a role to play. The private groups are less constrained by diplomatic requirements than the official South Koreans are. The South Korean diplomats are very helpful in terms of working with people once they get out of China. The way that most people leave nowadays is once they get out of North Korea into China, they leave through the Southwest part of China into Thailand, Burma, or Laos.  The South Koreans work very closely with the governments of those areas in helping them make the trip and helping them move on to South Korea where they are helped.

Would you say this issue has affected China-South Korea relations on a larger scale?

The issue is an irritant because the Chinese are concerned about what is going on inside their territory. South Korea and China have very broad relations, extensive trade relations, and they work together on a lot of issues. They have differences on some issues and this is one issue where there are differences. As with all mature countries, you have to deal with easy issues and you have to deal with tough issues and that is the case with South Korea and China.

Has the U.S. government provided any assistance to these women?

Like South Korea, the U.S. government has the same kind of problems in terms of dealing with North Korean defectors who try to escape through China. We do raise the issue with the Chinese government. When I was a special Envoy for North Korean human rights issues, I raised this issue in the Chinese Mission in the Geneva UN Human Rights Council and frequently in Beijing, both with the Foreign Ministry and the Communist Party infrastructure. We felt it was important to make sure the Chinese understand that we have a humanitarian concern and are anxious to see these people assisted. We have all agreed that there should be freedom of movement. The North Koreans have agreed, but not in practice, as they will not let anybody leave. The Chinese are very concerned about freedom of movement as well.

Although this is a complicated issue, what are your recommendations moving forward, either to the governments of various countries or to private groups?

Although there is no easy solution, it is a humanitarian concern and so we need to devote time, effort, and resources to dealing with it. The United States officially continues to raise the issue, to protest, and to do what we can within international organizations like the UN. Before the United States stopped participating in the UN Human Rights Council, we were very active in terms of raising these issues internationally. We tried to put pressure on North Korea and on China to allow policies that would help people from being trafficked and allow them to have freedom of movement. We need to continue to do that, continue to press the North Koreans, and continue to raise the issue with the Chinese. Private groups do things that governments cannot do and governments have to be careful about how they encourage these kinds of activities. When I was a special envoy, I tried to caution private groups to stay within the limits of what they can do legally. There is no easy solution as this is a very complicated issue and the United States is trying to work with South Korea, China and with other countries such as Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Burma where this issue occurs. It is important that we continue this effort.